tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post2416606798587893527..comments2023-09-19T08:51:21.932+01:00Comments on The Altruist: RiskAzualhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00284543108965798013noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-53501349803702781682012-04-15T15:43:45.162+01:002012-04-15T15:43:45.162+01:00I seam to have a split personality in eve when it ...I seam to have a split personality in eve when it comes to this, if im solo every ship is a cyno and a gang is behind every gate. but give me even 1 wing man and ill take on 5 BCs. I'll admit i have passed up on many good fights out of caution, but i have taken a hadfull and have made some of my best eve friends by havign a good fight and convoing them after and talkign about how good it was, and how we should do more against or with eachother.<br /><br />I also ocasionaly FC 0.0 roams for a friends corp, I request a very specific, and sometimes random ship type for fleet and we roam till we kill something, regaurdless of losses. If the fight looks like we can squeeze 1 kill out of it we put all our chips in. last ngith it was a pure raiper/arazu roam, with one link cain and a scimi. we lost the BC and a recon fightign a 10man nano BC gang, but we killed 2 of them, and had had wiped a 5man kitchen sink gang 10min before that. Its hard but if you can force down the "your all in 170mil ships fighting 60mil ships" feeling, you can get great fights.<br /><br />great read btw, keep it upHeribeckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11966861334504892641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-34657847773715442462012-04-14T19:06:27.693+01:002012-04-14T19:06:27.693+01:00I totally agree with this post. As someone who liv...I totally agree with this post. As someone who lives in space that is currently under war-time CTA problems, it can be funny to see super safe players who only ever roll in 200-300 man fleets bragging about all the kills they can tag in a fleet fight. Personally I have been flying outside of ships in "substandard" ships with the specific goal to find better fights, for example flying a cyclone instead of a hurricane, or any other underestimated ship. Fighting things that may be bait, are the best chance for some really fun fights. For every time I am baited/cov ops hotdropped, I find two good fights. <br />I totally agree with this article.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-41854261269085152002012-04-14T07:20:58.364+01:002012-04-14T07:20:58.364+01:00When people discuss ships in 1v1 scenarios, you...<i>When people discuss ships in 1v1 scenarios, you'll almost always hear things like 'X will win because it can dictate range' or 'X can't kill Y, because Y can just warp off'. The thing about this kind of statement is that it's purely mechanical, and assumes that both parties do everything right; the real thing rarely works out in such an absolute fashion.</i><br /><br />This is an intuition I've had for a long time, but never figured out how to put it into words. Seeing it in "print" has given me a chance to revisit my entire perspective. Thank you!Dian Lunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10919074937895780314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-35516837753385122942012-04-13T17:14:20.928+01:002012-04-13T17:14:20.928+01:00Great post!
It's a topic I've thought a l...Great post!<br /><br />It's a topic I've thought a lot about. In general, the evaluation of risk is somewhat arbitrary. Once you realize that, you can willfully manipulate it to increase your overall fun and to defeat enemies.<br /><br />I blogged more about it <a href="http://reverendmak.com/2012/04/the-altruist-risk/" rel="nofollow">here</a>Reverend Makhttp://reverendmak.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-65609117634646653602012-04-13T09:51:19.480+01:002012-04-13T09:51:19.480+01:00You sir, are a king among men. Thanks for the help...You sir, are a king among men. Thanks for the help!Azualhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00284543108965798013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-53711843510304997312012-04-13T07:21:31.832+01:002012-04-13T07:21:31.832+01:00little correction: That exequror was not using MWD...little correction: That exequror was not using MWD but an AB. SoI have to go 30 km with my mwd to that Naga :/<br />o7ChildofDestructionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-67165145175020735302012-04-13T07:12:00.503+01:002012-04-13T07:12:00.503+01:00Hey Mate, I am really surprised and happy to see t...Hey Mate, I am really surprised and happy to see that you have all those fun out of our fight. Just a little touch from your wing man:<br /><br />If you ever ask me what is in your mind 6-7 months ago before and engagement, I would say stay alive first. Then I found out that this is not the fun part of EVE and PvP. I decide to chance my mind and methodology for PvP. My approach switch from survival math to predator mind. <br /><br />Now before engaging a group or a person, The only math I do is the look for the remote chance of success. Such an example is; <br />http://www.agony-unleashed.com/killboard/index.php/kill_related/75391/<br /><br />I was out for Fishing in my bait exequror (yes the tech 1 crappy gallente logi) and got his Naga sitting on the gate at zero. Now that are the odd for your to get him with 220 small hybrid gun fitted double web scram 1600 plate fitted fishing ship. <br /><br />There come the point where you start having fun. Say what the hell, pop an STD X-Instictive and try...<br /><br />I approach 30k with MWD while spiraling and acquire a close orbit and start engaging with everything. I wasn't expected to win thought a Nemesis also joing in and start hitting me. So I send drones after him while slowly chewing the Naga. I was socked with the result when naga blowed and nemesis was on grid fleeing with structure. I thought to my self, It is the best day every but hold on a second. A Zelot from same corp declocked and I pissed to my self for not realizing the local up and gate activation. <br />My armor was at 85% and I got my fun. <br /><br />There comes the second decision point; I say what the hell, I got my fight, let see How interesting it could get, may be one or two tech 2 fright joing and I could kill them while dying. So Rush to close orbit while overheating everything and deploying all that I have to him. <br /><br />He was head of me and then decide to de-agress and approach the gate, I was already overheating the guns like hell. After bearly 1.5 half minute his tank broken and he hits the structure. <br /><br />What if I didn't engage that naga or zelot ? what if that zelot friend of naga decide to come earlier? What if that zelot decide to keep engaging (which would probably killed me) ? Within all these odds the real ones are to try doing something against common odds and being too cautious to have fun and try to bail out.<br /><br />At the end all I would say;<br />1- Go out with cheap stuff that you can effort which you would not care to lose and also not looks intimidating to others to get more fights!<br />2- Stop calculating your survival but start looking for bites you can get. (the best fun is to kill something like this in between 20 ships while his friends are trying to understand what hell you are doing (http://www.agony-unleashed.com/killboard/index.php/kill_detail/78745/)<br />3- Don't forget the fact that eve is not a fair place and you will lose more then you win but the fun is always there both the times you lose or win.<br />4- And my personal touch (though you might have other ideas which is still valid) Earn the respect of you opponents (nobody is my enemy but all of you are my opponents whether you respect me or not) and then again you will have more fight and fun.<br /><br />I guess its enough torture with my lack of writing skills. This is a great article Azual and I really missed out non solo "solo roams". BTW you own me few gallante stuff and I want either their loss mails or them back. So please start losing them :D<br /><br />Happy Hunting<br />Child (ofDestruction)ChildofDestructionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-43092593193639321042012-04-13T01:28:27.348+01:002012-04-13T01:28:27.348+01:00IMHO this will improve EVE PvP.IMHO this will improve EVE PvP.Shegunna Blowhttp://www.eveuniversity.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-60962888577212890012012-04-13T01:14:16.668+01:002012-04-13T01:14:16.668+01:00mysteriouse benefactor
i was piloting that wolf ...mysteriouse benefactor<br /> i was piloting that wolf and got in tha fight cuz i like ur posts...and i hate goons lol<br /> still got in mind that fightAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-15105575325687432152012-04-12T19:57:30.663+01:002012-04-12T19:57:30.663+01:00One of your most encouraging and thrilling blogs. ...One of your most encouraging and thrilling blogs. Thanks a ton.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-66247432952011248082012-04-12T18:45:04.690+01:002012-04-12T18:45:04.690+01:00As always, a great article. It's something I n...As always, a great article. It's something I notice about myself from time to time, and something I try to overcome whenever possible. (I'm still amused that I was so surprised that a friend of mine took down a T3 BC with a 125mm Rifter, but only because I didn't really understand the mechanics involved at the time. I know, however, that back then, I wouldn't have gone for that fight, thinking the T3 BC would definitely have blown me up.)zievarrennahttp://twitter.com/zievarrennanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-83888784499191491742012-04-12T17:22:41.745+01:002012-04-12T17:22:41.745+01:00In my experience, in all PvP games (of which I'...In my experience, in all PvP games (of which I've played many), close wins and close losses are always the most enjoyable and memorable, and I go out of my way to arrange for fights that might give that result. I'd much rather almost win or almost lose than anything else.rptb1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10159488377608006723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-20186086620559040032012-04-12T12:55:44.515+01:002012-04-12T12:55:44.515+01:00Fair point regarding the 'easy option' - I...Fair point regarding the 'easy option' - I think for some people, the easy option will be to take risks without thinking. It really depends what falls within your comfort zone - if you're naturally aggressive, you might find you fall for traps too often and it takes discipline to dial that back. For me, the easy option is definitely to play it safe. Whichever side you learn towards, you'll probably find you err on that side more often that you should.<br /><br />The real message I'm trying to get across isn't that you should take losing fights - I've flown on plenty of suicide gangs and hate the idea of thowing our gang into a fight we can't win just 'for the lulz'. What I want to help people realise is that many of the fights that you currently turn down because you don't think you have the advantage, are actually fights that you would win if you took them. Being too cautious can often lose you more opportunities than it saves you losses.<br /><br />When I talk about taking a risk, I don't mean taking a fight you expect to lose (even though in the examples above, I *did* expect to lose), nor do I mean taking a risk that has no potential to benefit you (like flying your 2 bil drake around unscouted). Those are unwise decisions, as you rightly point out. For me, a risky fight is one where the outcome is uncertain - you could win, but you don't *know* that you will win. You're taking a chance. It might mean engaging a ratting battleship with your assault frigate, or taking on an older player in a frigate duel. In an FCing sence, it might be where you jump into the opposing gang rather than setting up at range and hoping that they jump into you.<br /><br />Sometimes it's even simpler than that - it might be making a quick decision rather than waiting until you've scouted every possible reinforcement route to make sure the opponent has no backup. It might be gambling on the fact that an opponent's backup won't make it there in time (often something that people underestimate). These aren't dumb choices, they're opportunities which wouldn't be available if you approached the situation cautiously, but they all involve an element of risk.Azualhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00284543108965798013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-29438734997574040352012-04-12T12:51:35.811+01:002012-04-12T12:51:35.811+01:00The only way you're going to get good at PvP i...The only way you're going to get good at PvP is to push your boundaries - reading or watching other people will only get you so far via imitation. <br /><br />Also, in a fleet environment it's about trust. Trust in your wingmate(s) that they know what to do without the FC having to hold their hands, telling them where to burn, how fast to burn etc. etc. As a Tusker, I'm perfectly willing to go fight a 15-20 man gang with another Tusker or two by my side and see what happens, since I know they can function independently, shoot the right targets, move in the correct fashion etc.Suleiman Shouaahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10457363105618764197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-4412262749101475382012-04-12T12:05:55.261+01:002012-04-12T12:05:55.261+01:00Tackle first worry later.
I a lot of r1fta pilots...Tackle first worry later.<br /><br />I a lot of r1fta pilots fly by that doctrine, in fact I'm one of the more cautious ones and I will still happily tackle a ratting maller, from experience only about a third are traps the others just idiots (or really clever ratters thinking; "nobody will go for a maller" ofc :P ).<br /><br />Anyways our killboard is a testament to the fact that the stuff you can kill as long as you just engage it is remarkable. If you never punch above your weight epic killmails never happen either. And when you loose? Well it's just pixels man ;-)<br /><br />Anyway I personally think one of the main reasons people are risk averse is that people are taught in fleets that 'isk efficiency matters' or that 'k/d ratios matter' where really they don't matter (not to me anyway). I'm just this dude that comes home from work and wants to relax having fun fighting in spaceships. What does matter to me is if I have fun, and while loosing isn't as fun as winning not getting a fight at all is even less fun.Kaeda Maxwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13954843678698092456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-26149654725093393012012-04-12T08:13:00.412+01:002012-04-12T08:13:00.412+01:00I sort of suspect that with the craziness of the m...I sort of suspect that with the craziness of the mineral market we might encounter more frigates and wolf-packs running around as opposed to the standard t2/faction cruiser and BC gangs. We might even start to see more t1 frigate wolf packs instead of assault ships. That would be an interesting twist, where the dominant fleet comp switches from high end cruisers and BCs to cheap-ish frigates.Truen1ghthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14658827203515387622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-45510996007152621012012-04-12T06:10:51.716+01:002012-04-12T06:10:51.716+01:00IRL, I'm a Fire Lieutenant.
I've made dec...IRL, I'm a Fire Lieutenant.<br /><br />I've made decisions for and that directly and immediately affected myself, other Firefighters, civilians, and fire apparatus worth a hell of a lot of RL-ISK.<br />I also spent a lot of time studying leadership, especially psychological and sociological issues that apply to it.<br />Basically, there's a couple fundamental issues at work here:<br />1) Zero-defect mentality: "there is NO such thing as an 'ok' loss", aka "return with your shield or upon it". That was nice for Sparta. Last I checked, we don't run around in loincloths waving swords and spears whilst engaging in homoerotica that makes porn stars blush. Also, EVE is a game.<br />2) Personal attribution, a variation "Hanlon's Razor", or "Hong's Narcissistic Asshole Theory": smart people don't make silly/stupid mistakes. Actually, smart people don't make mistakes period, because they always find some excuse or scapegoat to pin it on. If all else fails: "I didn't really care about that ship/POS/system/region anyways. *sniffle*"<br />Corollary to this (part Deux of the Narcissistic Asshole Theory): Only stupid people make mistakes, and only really truly fucktarded ones who should be excluded from reproducing (or perhaps euthanized outright as a service to the Greater Good of Mankind) ever ADMIT to making said mistakes, or attempt to discuss them in a rational manner. <--- these things are what narcissistic assholes think. Lots of people these days are narcissistic assholes, including a vast majority of EVE players. ;-) Something about the game seems to bring them out of the woodwork.<br /><br />I like the Tuskers attitude: KB efficiency is too high, ergo we are not taking enough risks or "hard" fights.<br />I only wish more people would adopt that mindset.<br /><br />Then again, with the upcoming nerfs to, well, pretty much everything not mining (and only because it's impossible to nerf mining any further), and the apparent economic collapse looming on the horizon, I doubt you're going to see many people willing to take MORE risk. If anything, at least until markets settle and all, people will be even LESS likely to take any perceived risks.<br /><br />If things really get that bad, I plan to quit -- first wasting every last single ISK on ships and mods and getting them all blown up in glorious and potentially "stupid" fights.Hong WeiLohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14702284760088727892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-67304268274538824572012-04-12T05:27:32.032+01:002012-04-12T05:27:32.032+01:00As far as gang/fleet goes... agree on a level of r...As far as gang/fleet goes... agree on a level of risk you all want to take. If an FC simply ups the risk-level without warning, then - yes - he is a bad FC.<br /><br />But as Azual said, "the attitude you take to risk in PVP is your own choice". He wasn't bashing a cautious approach - just saying that there is another option - the riskheavy approach to pvp - that is quite often scorned. Yet why should it be? It is as valid as a cautious approach.<br /><br />So, even in a fleet/gang setting, why not make a case for all of them going for a little bit more risk? Getting more fights, finding out something about engagements you hadn't previously considered desirable, etc. Much fun and experience to be had.<br /><br />Yes, there are many reasons not too. But it is an option. And it isn't a "waste" even if you get routed. You do not HAVE TO fear giving an enemy "easy kills" (there may be strategic reasons for not doing so, but those do not apply to everybody, and even then there might be more to be gained by going ahead).<br /><br />It may not be YOUR style, but it is a valid approach for pvp in New Eden. Never forget, we are immortal.IMortagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08039215149310601938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-36430620041614677002012-04-12T05:07:06.618+01:002012-04-12T05:07:06.618+01:00Thank you.
I hate people citing killboard statist...Thank you.<br /><br />I hate people citing killboard statistics for skill.<br /><br />Or being called a loser because I warped to zero on a taranis and hurricane in an AC-scram/web/mwd-thrasher solo, thinking i could kill the ranis before I died (he survived in very low structure). I considered myself dead already when i hit the warp-button, but still went in. I had a good chance to get the kill I wanted - so close :( - and some experience. (I learned quite a bit from that very short fight, one or two minor mistakes avoided, and I would have gotten that kill. lossmail: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16023525) <br /><br />I've also been called stupid for continously engaging Arty-wolfs in my AC-Thrasher (mind you, burning to them from range, not jumping in on zero). Well, I've killed three so far (e.g. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15825183 or http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15774188 where it actually became a 1vX and i died, but got the wolf) - and lost four (maybe five) thrashers on the way. I think I'll continue to go for that particular matchup.<br /><br />Yes, I am still new at this. And neither engagement might sound very challenging for a skilled veteran, but I AM a newbie. And while I can take criticism for mistakes I have made in a fight or tips on how to improve my position for the engagement (when and where to engage), I do not like the sentiment of... "you are loser, why did you go for that fight" or "don't do this, you are the underdog". So what? Next time tell me why I am the underdog and how I could improve my chances and get a chance at coming out on top.<br /><br />I will continue to engage everything and everybody, unless I know for certain it would be pointless (I am unlikely to go in for a Myrm' kill in a solo Rifter.) It's probably the fastest way to improve my actual skill.<br /><br />Obviously everybody has the right to be cautious and there are many good reasons to be: being space-poor, role-playing, not being able to reship quickly and many others. If you aren't flying solo, check with your gang/fleet what kind of risk they are willing to take. You do not want to be responsible for putting somebody else in a position of (from his point of view) excessive risk. <br /><br />But you aren't making sense if you are snubbing somebody else simply because he is taking "big" risks. Rather: Hail, and glory to the heavens, a pvp-engagement that almost wouldn't have been. And somebody (most likely) got a kill, even more people learned something. <br /><br />*me stops rantingIMortagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08039215149310601938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-63977701774573785642012-04-12T03:57:46.131+01:002012-04-12T03:57:46.131+01:00I have a slightly different take on this issue.
I...I have a slightly different take on this issue.<br /><br />I am hardly a risk-averse person. I've flown billion-ISK bpo's through low-sec in shuttles. I've lost a ridiculously-fit 2 billion ISK drake taking it unscouted through a low-sec pipe trying to get back to hi-sec after getting stuck on the wrong side of a WH. I've jumped through an EOL WH in an orca with neutrals in system, no backup and no idea what the timer of the WH was. These reckless acts were fun and gave me a nice adrenaline spike, but they were not wise decisions. I acted alone and bore the possible consequences alone.<br /><br />I like flying in gangs that are led by people who make wise decisions. Anybody can fly gate to gate through nullsec if they want to blow up. Anybody can self-destruct their ships. Anybody can be impatient. Anybody can let their boredom and lack of discipline induce poor choices. Anybody can take 100 fights they expect to lose and then post a video showing the 1 fight they win.<br /><br />My rule is, if the fight (after factoring in all the known variables) looks even or better, take it. If they start the fight with the advantage and they have back-up, an uneven fight becomes a slaughter. Why waste the time (and ISK, but mostly the time) of 10 or 20 guys on a mismatch when maybe waiting a few minutes will get you a really good fight? Why give the enemy easy kills and tell him 'I'm too impatient to turn down a fight, no matter the odds.'? Will that make him less likely to blob me the next time he sees me?<br /><br />I particularly cringe when I see you write 'it's always tempting to take the easy option'. The easy option is taking the bad fight. The easy option is saying 'I told you guys I'm a terrible FC'. The easy option is spamming 'Don't fly what you can't afford to lose' and pretending that's synonymous with 'Only fly what you're happy to lose.' The hard option is to (if necessary) say 'Well guys, the fish weren't biting today, but wasn't it great to be out on the lake? Let's head home.'Jonathan Fergusonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11040770112301192267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-38730301620289664252012-04-12T02:24:45.976+01:002012-04-12T02:24:45.976+01:00Another psychological factor: Lack of a literal ki...Another psychological factor: Lack of a literal killer instinct (as incongruent that may be in a PvP game). However, people like that should seriously consider full-time scouting.Druur Monakhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07299435488090977357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3194738944223601630.post-89663867686142107552012-04-12T02:22:18.304+01:002012-04-12T02:22:18.304+01:00As a pilot with a fairly limited amount of in-game...As a pilot with a fairly limited amount of in-game time due to RL responsibilities I find that I frequently fall victim to over cautiousness.<br /><br />When you're only afforded 30min here and there to log in and roam, there's a natural tendency to gravitate towards engagements where you're more confident of a positive outcome -- so that you can keep roaming (and not be forced to re-ship and start over) but also to keep your ISK efficiency and KB stats up. It's a crappy state-of-mind to fall into (KB/stat obsession), but I'm certainly guilty of it.<br /><br />This post has inspired me to attempt to shed that mindset and enjoy a more balls-out approach to PvP -- thanks for the kick in the ass.[REPO.]https://www.blogger.com/profile/00548528619244668363noreply@blogger.com